Tiling on to chipboard flooring

Rich

Hello,

I'm a newbie here as i'm currently doing up our first house on a budget! I was wondering if you could give me some advice and suggest some suitable BAL products? I'm narrowing it down to BAL as they come highly recommended! Here goes...

I'm about to tile a small bathroom floor (2.2 m2 floor space) with 300x600mm porcelain tiles (10mm thick). The house is a well built victorian mid terrace but we had to remove the old floor boards in the bathroom as some of the boards underneath the bath had rotted due to a leak around the shower end of the bath caused by the previous owners. I replaced all the floor boards with 'Waterproof treated Tongue & Groove Chipboard Flooring (18mm)' and screwed these down to the original joists as they had not been affected by the leak.

Basically, I was wondering what products you would recommend for priming the chipboard then fixing and grouting the tiles? I had planned to tile straight on to the chipboard using 'BAL Single Part Fast Flex' but was not sure what primer to use directly on the chipboard, or what grout would be most suitable?

Firstly, would you recommend using the 'BAL Single Part Fast Flex' for this job and if so what primer and grout would work best with this?

N.B. If possible, I would like to avoid over boarding the chipboard with ply as the height of the toilet soil pipe and sink is now fixed. If you would strongly advise to overboard with ply then please let me know but I could only use a 6mm thick ply at most as anything thicker would cause the toilet outlet and soil pipe to miss align (plus the sink would start to become noticeably low!)

Many thanks in advance,
Rich

GracesDad

I'll get told off for saying this, but for a 2.2sqm floor, if there isn't any bounce in it, then SPFF will be fine. Sand the floor first in case it's a waxy finish (there's no such thing as waterproof chipboard btw). Don't prime it. And if you really must do it this way without overboarding, then make sure you get 100% coverage on the tiles.
I'd recommend getting the BAL tipped trowel for the SPFF - makes 100% coverage easier to achieve.

Also, BAL will not offer any guarantees doing this, but from my own experience I'd say you'd fine on such a small floor.

GAZ_BAL_PST

Hi Rich,
I agree with Mark on all the above advice, with such a small floor the movement or deflection should be at a bare minimum. After removal of any wax coats on boards fix with Single Part Fastflex & ensure that you use BAL Wide Joint grout with GT1 additive diluted at 1:1 with the water to ensure maximum grout flexibility.

PS. If you want to use a grout colour from Micromax grout range, the GT1 dilution then becomes 2:1 dilution (2 water 1 GT1).

Gaz

sussex tiler

I know you're doing this on a budget but I'd seriously consider taking out the sanitary ware and doing it properly. If you have any problems with basin or W/C in the future you can imagine the problems this could create. Also the basin and W/C will be at incorrect heights if you cut around them. It'll also take less than half the time to tile if they are out. It'll leave you with a much better finish.
I'd also overboard. Personally would never tile direct to chipboard.

GracesDad

...I'll get me horse!!! :-)

GAZ_BAL_PST

In an ideal world Kelvin is quite correct, removal of pottery is always the best recommendation, an overlay does depend upon the structural stability of the floor in question. BAL Single Part Fastflex is an elastomeric adhesive containing rubber, with excessive movement it will cope and keep the tiles stuck down but the stress will fracture the tiles so it is a judgement call on your part.

Rich

Hey fellas,

Thanks very much for all your advice, it is very much appreciated. I'm so annoyed at myself as this project had be planned so well up until now!

Just to clarify, there is no pottery in the bathroom at the moment (only the bath has now been fixed in place) so I am not tiling round anything. The sink is going to be wall mounted using rag bolts however I wanted to securely bed these into the brick before I tiled the walls so these are now in place which is why the sink height can't be adjusted.

Regarding the WC, we had to move the soil pipe slightly so the plumber fixed the height of the incoming pipe which is why the toilet cannot be raised. I cannot make up the height that an offset connector would give me without considerably increasing the floor height which would in turn make the sink far too low..... so as you can see, i'm stuck between a rock and a hard place!

I've attached a pic so you can see where i'm at.

SO, if I tile directly onto the flooring using BAL Single Part Fastflex and use BAL Wide Joint (or Micromax) with GT1 Additive... would you suggest priming the surface of the Chipbaord with SBR before applying the fast flex or is this not needed? I just thought that priming may help the bonding and make the face of the flooring that bit more water proof???

This is the stuff i'm tiling onto... http://www.diy.com/nav/build/timber/sheet-materials/chipboard/length_2400mm/Tongue-and-Groove-Chipboard-Flooring-L-2400-x-W-600-x-T-18mm-Waterproof-Treated-9276285

Rich

GAZ_BAL_PST said:
In an ideal world Kelvin is quite correct, removal of pottery is always the best recommendation, an overlay does depend upon the structural stability of the floor in question. BAL Single Part Fastflex is an elastomeric adhesive containing rubber, with excessive movement it will cope and keep the tiles stuck down but the stress will fracture the tiles so it is a judgement call on your part.

Hi Gary,

In addition to what i've written above, thanks for your advice. This is about the most clear and concise advice i'e been given. I'd hope that 10mm thick, large tiles would cope in such a small area with the fastflex. I know i'm repeating myself, but would you recommend priming the chipboard floor with SBR just to be on the safe side, or would this cause the Fastflex to fail?

Rich

GAZ_BAL_PST said:
Hi Rich,
I agree with Mark on all the above advice, with such a small floor the movement or deflection should be at a bare minimum. After removal of any wax coats on boards fix with Single Part Fastflex & ensure that you use BAL Wide Joint grout with GT1 additive diluted at 1:1 with the water to ensure maximum grout flexibility.

PS. If you want to use a grout colour from Micromax grout range, the GT1 dilution then becomes 2:1 dilution (2 water 1 GT1).

Gaz

Also, I've just noticed on your product guide that Wide Joint doesn't have Porcel Bond so would I better using Micromax with Porcelain tiles?

branty1uk

It'll be ok if you're adding GT1.

Rich

branty1uk said:
It'll be ok if you're adding GT1.

ok, thanks again

GracesDad

You'll get a better "bite" into the chipboard without priming.
You can prime if you want, but it's pretty pointless in this case.
Definitely sand it down a bit though, to remove the waxy coating which makes these boards "so called waterproof".

TLCTilesDundee

I would use plastic ply

Rich

TLCTilesDundee said:
I would use plastic ply

Where can you buy plastic ply and what prep to the chipboard would be necessary? Also, what adhesive and grout, guessing you wouldn't need something as flexible as Fastflex?

TilingForum

TLCTilesDundee said:
I would use plastic ply

I've never used this product, tell me more

Rich

TilingForum said:

TLCTilesDundee said:
I would use plastic ply

I've never used this product, tell me more

Here's a link... http://www.ncdirect.co.uk/index.php?p=ht&id=80

Just researching it and it seems to get very mixed reviews. A lot of posts saying that it doesn't do anything that spff doesn't do.

Seems a good idea to me, although I had decided to go down the BAL spff route. Not sure what to do now!

GracesDad

Plastic Ply is a bit like snake oil in some peoples views.
I've heard more negative comments than positive though.
I've never used it so I can't fairly comment, although I probably never would use either.

Rich

GracesDad said:
You'll get a better "bite" into the chipboard without priming.
You can prime if you want, but it's pretty pointless in this case.
Definitely sand it down a bit though, to remove the waxy coating which makes these boards "so called waterproof".

Quick question... If I go down the BAL spff route, is it essential that I prime the edges and underside of the chipboard?

Basically, I can't do this now as the board has been screwed and glued in places and I didn't realise about priming underneath. Would this cause the spff to fail?

Just wondering if the plastic ply is a better option at this stage?

Would really appreciate your thoughts?!

Rich

Just adding this pic to help illustrate my question above... not sure if it make a different or not but this is what the floor is like underneath. We have boarded over now as shown in the earlier pic.

branty1uk

You're meant to underseal the timber whatever adhesive you use, even with the plastic stuff. If you using moisture resistant chipboard, you'll probably be ok.

Rich

yes, it is m

branty1uk said:
You're meant to underseal the timber whatever adhesive you use, even with the plastic stuff. If you using moisture resistant chipboard, you'll probably be ok.

yes, it is moisture resistant chipboard flooring. I was just worried about water getting in any tiny cracks in the grout if I go down the BAL spff route. If the spff adhesive is spread correctly then it should form a flexible layer but wouldn't be water proof? My thought with plastic ply is that it would at least form a barrier should any water eventually get between the tiles. Not sure if i'm over thinking this a bit???

Tiling on to chipboard flooring

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