Movement Joints

Lovat76

Hi Everybody

Just out of interest who's movement joints do people use?
How often do you use them?
At what intervals do you tend to use them?
Do you change what you do when tiling over a heated floor?

Merle

Used to use a lot of Siri joints, but mostly Schluter now.
Always use when necessary, but thats not a lot nowadays.
If a floor is over 8m long I will split it in two with a movement joint or if there is a structural joint in the concrete/screed I will install the joint over that but point out that the tiles will be cut if it lands in the body of the tile(if you know what I mean Harry) 8m walls get split also, but tend to just have a silicone joint rather than a preformed one.
Some say 10m is OK to divide in half, but I've always erred on the side of caution and went with 8.
No I do not change for heated floors, but make sure there is a perimeter one as well.

TileTown

This quite an interesting topic.....i started asking tilers only the other day how often do they use movement joints, quite scary that most of the answers were hardly ever, or the best line "it wouldnt look right with a movement joint"

I do think that there is a lack of understanding as to when movement joints should be used, could someone upload what the BS is for this? even on heated floors?

TilingForum

@tiletown That is frightening Lee, more education for the tile industry required.

Maybe we need schluter and other movement joint manufacturers to have a say?

SchluterSystemsLtd

Hello All,

Been reading the forum for a while however only just got round to signing up.

The requirement for Movement Joints is an area we are constantly educating installers, architects and distributors about, through our own training sessions, joint sessions with adhesive manufacturers, RIBA CPD Network and through our dedicated eLearning Academy, www.elearningatschluter.co.uk.

If anyone at anytime needs advice on the application of Schlüter-DILEX movement joints then feel free to contact us on the details in my signature and a member of our technical department will be at hand to support you.

There is an eLearning module dedicated to Schlüter-DILEX on our academy and it covers movement joint types, application and British Standards for anyone interested. if you've not signed up already then use "TilingForum.co.uk" in the referral filed on the registration page and I'll as that your application is processed as a priority.

TileTown

Hello Carl and the Schluter team, thanks for taking the time to join.

Could you clarify my points on when are where we should be advising the installation of movement joints?

Lee

SchluterSystemsLtd

Hi Lee,

The codes of practice are specific that all movement joints must be continuous through the tiles, adhesive bed, screed and insulation. Floor movement joints must be placed in accordance with BS 5385 Part 3 and BS EN 1264 in the following areas:

Where there is existing and/or structural movement joints in the substrate i.e. new screed to old screed, the movement joint within the surface tiling must be the same width or greater and be placed directly above.

Where tiling abuts restraining surfaces that are more than 2 metres apart, e.g. perimeter walls, columns, kerbs, steps, etc.

Wherever there is an increased possibility of movement, e.g. over radiant heated floors or where the installation is exposed to strong sunlight additional joints must be considered.

The TTA document "Tiling to heated floors" under section 4 Design Considerations recommends that the maximum area bounded by intermediate movement joints should not exceed bay sizes of 25 m2. The bays formed should be square or rectangular with movement joints located at centres of no greater than 5 m generally, however with Schlüter®-DITRA the bays can be divided up by movement joints into bays of size no greater than 40 m² with an edge length not exceeding 8 metres.

The tile field should be as square as possible. The ratio between length and width should not exceed 1:1.5, e.g. 5 metres x 7.5 metres.

Movement joints should be placed directly over any supporting walls or beams.

Additional movement joints should be installed where the floor is subject to high thermal gain, moisture and high traffic. All movement joints must be continuous through the tile, adhesive bed, substrate and entire assembly.

It is good practice to include movement joints in doorways.

Contact Schlüter-Systems Ltd for immediate advice and information on 01530 813396, or alternatively, e-mail technical@schluter.co.uk. Lines are open Monday – Friday, 8.30am – 5pm.

TilingForum

@SchluterSystemsLtd do you run any courses down at Coalville? That's just down the road from myself.

TileTown

Well Carl, as a 2n post, thats some 2nd post!

Thanks for clarifying a few points.

SchluterSystemsLtd

Hello Dave,

We do courses on a range of subjects one being movement joints drop a line to training@schluter.co.uk and a Business Development Manager will get in contact with you direct.

TilingForum

Sounds a like plan Carl, maybe we should arrange for a few of the members to come down as a group as swot up on the movement joints and decouplers, learn the theory and regulations behind it all.

SchluterSystemsLtd

Sounds like a very good idea Dave.

sussex tiler

I've only ever used Dilex through CTD. I usually judge each job individually and decide whether or not I think it requires joints.

branty1uk

We've run a through movement joint courses with Schluter, very informative. Not sure if we have any planned for the new year. If we do I'll post the dates here.

sussex tiler

Do you do any down here Danny?

branty1uk

We would normally have one at HTW Brighton, or Boydens in Sutton.

tarkett85

always put one in doorways and follow BS as strictly as the property dictates never had a failure through installer error yet, it's not worth our reputation same goes for every floor covering we do from tile, carpet, wood, vinyl, laminate, resilient floorcoverings and all of our prep work. At least I can be confident in any failure being the fault of manufacturers or consumers not doing as they're told.

poolman

SchluterSystemsLtd said:
Hi Lee,

The codes of practice are specific that all movement joints must be continuous through the tiles, adhesive bed, screed and insulation. Floor movement joints must be placed in accordance with BS 5385 Part 3 and BS EN 1264 in the following areas:

Where there is existing and/or structural movement joints in the substrate i.e. new screed to old screed, the movement joint within the surface tiling must be the same width or greater and be placed directly above.

Where tiling abuts restraining surfaces that are more than 2 metres apart, e.g. perimeter walls, columns, kerbs, steps, etc.

Wherever there is an increased possibility of movement, e.g. over radiant heated floors or where the installation is exposed to strong sunlight additional joints must be considered.

The TTA document "Tiling to heated floors" under section 4 Design Considerations recommends that the maximum area bounded by intermediate movement joints should not exceed bay sizes of 25 m2. The bays formed should be square or rectangular with movement joints located at centres of no greater than 5 m generally, however with Schlüter®-DITRA the bays can be divided up by movement joints into bays of size no greater than 40 m² with an edge length not exceeding 8 metres.

The tile field should be as square as possible. The ratio between length and width should not exceed 1:1.5, e.g. 5 metres x 7.5 metres.

Movement joints should be placed directly over any supporting walls or beams.

Additional movement joints should be installed where the floor is subject to high thermal gain, moisture and high traffic. All movement joints must be continuous through the tile, adhesive bed, substrate and entire assembly.

It is good practice to include movement joints in doorways.

Contact Schlüter-Systems Ltd for immediate advice and information on 01530 813396, or alternatively, e-mail technical@schluter.co.uk. Lines are open Monday – Friday, 8.30am – 5pm.

what does my head in is BS STANDARDS AND EVEN EUROPEAN/WORLDWIDE STANDARDS are just recommendations and not LAW !!so they mean very little really,even though i stick by them personally as i see the sense in them

TT

I've put a few in where concrete meets timber always seem to lose on jobs that require a movement joint due to size of floor/ufh. I always want to contact the customer after to see what the other Tiler has done but the missus reckons it would be unprofessional but would like to see how many actually use movement joints never seen any in a screed though!! Have talked to schluter many times and always give great advice also I've got a PDF with info on movement joints and their ditra mat so can make a copy to give to customers when a movement joint or ditra is needed! TT

Lovat76

I go to lots of jobs where they should have movement joints but the clients refuse them, it always amazes me that they are prepared to spend thousands of pounds on a kitchen and tiles but then are prepared to risk the whole job for the sake of movement joint.

I know of a few where they have since cracked as well.

sussex tiler

I have seen a few jobs with cracks running along side and around the movement joints which is a bit disconcerting. Just make sure you have the right size and they are installed correctly!

Would be good to get a colour swatch board if Schluter do one as I have to order these in. It would be nice to show customers and let them decide on colours.
Any free Schluter buckets also appreciated (the one I was given is now full of lego).

Movement Joints

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